Lived Experience Forum

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

I saw that you were on a few years ago, but you did not pursue the site. I'm glad you decided to give it a second chance. 

I think it's really important that people are open about their thoughts/feelings. I saw this in your story of the woman you met after all those years. But, like you said, it wasnt meant to be. 

I try to be open with people I care about. It does get lonely though, when I make an effort with people and I dont get the same in return. Sometimes I feel it's not worth the time or effort.

I was talking to someone about friendship being overrated. Sometimes I agree with that notion. I guess it depends on what you want from the friendship and I have admitted that sometimes my expectations are high, because what I give is likewise high. If that makes sense? I always make time for people... even if i am busy trying to do morning routines, or im in bed after a long day. But why can't other people afford the same decency? If I call during morning routines, it's an outrage. Dont I know that its a crazy time of day? I dont know, Henry... I am just tired of everything and everyone. 

I dont even know if I am making any sense at all.

Hope you have a nice day.

Dani 

[HenryX]

Hello Dani

I enjoy reading your notes, and you certainly keep the neurons active.

Thank you.

At the end of your note, you made a statement that I think was a question. If I turn it around a little, it becomes

“Am I making any sense at all?”

The answer I propose is that I find it difficult to communicate with people who I think don't make sense. I don't have difficulty communicating with you, so my answer to the question is

“Yes, you do make sense”.

Having difficulty in life isn't the same as not making sense. A little while ago I was recalling a counselling appointment where the counsellor asked me how I felt about a particular issue. My response began with:

“I think that....” when the lady interjected and said:

“No, I am asking you how you feel, not what you think”

I was 27 at that time. Yes, that's years of age. So do you think I was mixed up about how to describe feelings and thoughts?

In a conversation, it may have been said that I didn't make sense. But that is because I wasn't talking the same “language”, not that what I said made no sense. The question is are we communicating with the same words used in a way that we both/all understand each other.

Friendship! I understand that it may be considered that friendship is overrated. But that really depends on what you mentioned: “our expectations”. Certainly, I have had friendships and relationships where, either I did not meet the expectations of someone else, or they did not meet or fulfil my expectations. Either way, there is a reason for disappointment, but possibly also an opportunity for growth.

I know for example a fellow who indicated that he was struggling with a small hospitality business. I helped him and he'd pass me a (very) few $$ now and again with the comment that he really couldn't afford any more. When I asked him for some assistance, he was very clear that he would charge me the full going rate for the work he did for me. Yes, business and friends don't mix well. However, it soon became apparent that there were other reasons that I no longer wanted this person as a friend.

I think that what we put into a friendship should be only as much as we can afford to lose. Now that comment may seem to be a mercenary point of view. On the other hand, I do believe that what we give in friendship is no longer ours to determine how it is used, applied or given on. In other words, whatever is given in friendship is given unconditionally. And likewise whatever is received in friendship should have no conditions or strings attached. If there are conditions or strings or expectations attached to what is given or received in a friendship, then to my way of thinking, it is really a contract and constitutes a business deal.

If we view friendship as an arrangement where whatever is given is given freely, we detach ourselves from any mercenary implication. However, the way I see it is that if we put into a friendship what we can afford to lose, and what is given in friendship is given unconditionally, without expectation of a return, then that truly constitutes friendship.

It's like stopping to give someone who looks as though they may not be able to do something or are totally unprepared for an unexpected event such as the requirement to change a wheel with a flat tyre. Assisting in this way is an act of friendship with no expectation of return, apart from the simple request to pass it on. If a smile and an appreciative thank you is offered, that is return enough. Though not necessarily expected, it can be graciously received. In this arrangement, we stop without the expectation of reward (unless of course we walk up and arrange a price before doing anything.)

That is what I view as the extreme short form of friendship. But realistically, our longer-term relationships can be very similar. If we have no expectation of return, we cannot lose anything. If we expect a return, everything given in this manner is an investment and we can consequently lose in the transaction.

Well, it is 1.00 am and I had better get some sleep. I did at least want to get this off tonight.

We had a planned power outage today from 7.30 am to 6.00 pm, so today was really a day of quiet reflection.

I'll come back on some of the other points tomorrow

We're on the downhill run to the end of the week. I do hope that the next few days are pleasant for you and your family

With Best Wishes

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

When I read your story and those of others, I feel that my expectations may be a tad high. My friends don't purposely hurt me, they don't use me or ask me for anything. They are just not there for me when I need them. I don't know whether I am expecting too much? 

I have my psychologist appointment this morning. We are planning on speaking about friendships. I have generally been pretty bad at maintaining friendships. I don't have a best friend. I have close friends but no one who chooses me first. That bothered me for quite a while but after thinking about friends being overrated, I think I may get over it.

anyways, I will let you know how my appointment goes later today. 

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

Hope you are ok?

[HenryX]

Hi Dani,

Yes, I'm going well thank you. I hope you are likewise.

It's been a fairly quiet day for me, a bit more activity tomorrow.

I plan to get the motor-bike out and give it, or me, a test run.

The both of us I think. Test my balance and a short run on the bike to see what needs adjusting before I go on any longer runs.

It's a while since I've ridden so I'll have to take it easy for a while.

Today most of the activity has been on the computer, “talking” or downloading books from one of my favourite websites “pdfdrive.com”

It's very good to hear from you

Hope everything is going well for you

Best Wishes

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

I thought I'd put you off somehow. Like been too boring or you'd got tired of messaging. 
I hope your bike riding went well 

[HenryX]

@Dani1981

Hello Dani

Unfortunately, we have had similar reasons for the delay in corresponding. I tend to write so much, that when I look back at my messages, I worry that it might be my messages that people may look at and say “oh, not another one of Henry's books” and skip right on to the next message. I do always appreciate the “support” clicks and so I feel as though what I write is of value to you and other people.

I hope you can appreciate that it is I who does not want to intrude or be boring or overbearing.......

I just looked back at some of my previous messages and also realised that I had overlooked adding your “identifier” @Dani1981 in some of my previous posts/messages. That would mean, as I am now aware, that you may not have received notification on the “new message board” of some of the messages that I had placed. However, those messages were written and placed in your thread. I believe that you would now be aware of that anyway. I am also sorry for that oversight on my part.

Consequently, I was worried that I may have “overstepped the mark” in some way. Hopefully, we have now cleared up any confusion in that regard.

What I recall was that you had an appointment last week and were looking forward to discussing some issues on friendship.

I can assure you, Dani, that I have enjoyed our correspondence and hope to continue corresponding with you. I am also disappointed to feel that I gave you cause for concern.

Having ended up going to bed late last night – silly fellow - forgot to take some tablets. As a result, ended up sleeping late today and will have to postpone the ride till tomorrow. Is this fear-avoidance?

I don't think so – more a lack of preparation. However, tomorrow is fine. It's hot here so it is a good time for riding.

Looking forward to hearing back from you Dani,

With Best Wishes,

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

Aren't I such a hypocrit? I have been slow in replying to your messages yet when you take time to reply to mine, I wonder whether you have gotten sick of me...

It is a recurring theme in my life. I get engrossed into relationships/friendships so much, and get scared of rejection or abandonment. And I always take things personal. Like when someone does not reply, I think that I must be the reason why they are not responding. I dont seem to think about what the other person must have going on in their lives. I just get upset. 

I do enjoy reading your messages. That is why I got worried that I would not receive any more. 

My psychologist and I spoke about how I gravitate towards friendships with males. I find that they have more time for texting/answering calls, than my female friends. I thought it was a pathologic thing that I do, because of my own lack of a father figure growing up. I love my dad. He tried his best. He just did not know how to be a good father. I know he loved me. And he certainly tried. But for a young girl growing up, it was not enough.

Anyways, I hope to hear back from you 

Dani

[HenryX]

@Dani1981 

Hi Dani,

Have begun to write a reply, but am due to go out shortly.

Thank you for your message and look forward to catching up Later on.

Going to a friend's place for dinner, then to a small singing group after that.

It's these sorts of activities that get me out and about.

Cheers for now

HenryX

[Dani1981]

No worries at all @HenryX 

Have FUN!