Lived Experience Forum

[Dani1981]

Good morning @HenryX 

How are you feeling this morning?

I am happy today, but every time I feel like that something happens to test me. When I am truly content, I very rarely stay that way for long.

For example, I was severely depressed during my university years, and then when I got into a good space by getting myself a counsellor and a part time job: I got into a car accident and was in rehab for 3 months. I still managed to finish my course, but it was a shock to the system.

So it may seem silly, but I am weary when I get into this state of mind. I am scared!!

Anyways, hope you get to enjoy this lovely weather 🙂

Happy Sunday!

Dani

[HenryX]

Hello Dani,

 Lovely to hear back from you. Great to hear that you are feeling happy today.

I am, likewise, feeling well this morning, though I woke up later than planned.

Where I am, the Autumn weather is really pleasant. We've had a good deal of rain recently; unusually high for this area. Although, at this time, we often get the tail-end of tropical thunderstorms this far South. The rain will, I believe, provide a really good start to the agricultural season. It means that the "moisture profile" of the soil will extend more deeply. The roots of crops tend to follow the moisture down, and the plants then are more resilient and tolerant of any later dry spells. I'm not a farmer but I live in an agricultural area.

Sometimes the principles of farming are analogous to our own existence. We try to reinforce the best characteristics we have by sending our roots deeper to make us more resilient.

Like you, I look back over the highs and lows of events in my life and, sometimes, just feel that the accumulated negatives seem to outweigh the positives, raising what may be the unpleasant question of how I feel about the whole exercise and practice of life and reason for existence.

Recently, I have been meditating and leaving myself with the 'direction' to dismiss the anxiety, while leaving the memories intact. In a sense, what I believe I am using is a form of 'self-hypnosis'.

By retaining the memories, I retain the lessons. By working at minimizing the anxiety, I am working to reduce and remove that part of my experience that seems to be the most disabling for me. I have found that fighting the anxiety is what really seems to drain me most.

The process is also positive, in that I give myself 'direction' to address a small number of the more pressing and important tasks at a time. I have only just started about a week ago, but am beginning to see promising results, particularly in the reduction of anxiety levels, which at this stage is my main objective. It also helps to clear that fog that seems to accompany anxiety.

I admire the fact that you persevered with, and completed your studies successfully. Studies completed at any time are a significant achievement and accomplishment, but in situations such as yours, even more so, given the stresses that you were experiencing.

I do not ever consider weariness and fear (being scared) as being silly. They are very real effects and consequences of lived experience, that some people experience more than others. They go hand in hand with anxiety and can precipitate a spiral to an unpleasant and unfortunate place.

Be assured that those three fingers, that I referred to before, are still pointing back at me.

{"I often reflect on the idea that when we are recommending a direction for someone else, with our index finger, we have three fingers pointing back to ourselves".}

Consequently, my responses to you are as much a message inwards, to me, as they are outwards, to and for you and others. In that way, you are helping me. My comments help me to articulate my own concerns and fears. The 'track' that we walk, even though figuratively, is very real, and we are sharing the journey, albeit in a digital environment.

It is interesting that life is a bit like a lift, it goes up before it goes down. We reach a high place of happiness and/or peace and we know that when that happens,

we expect the inevitable 'down' that will follow.

There are many times in my life when, having experienced those intense lows, that I have done the opposite. I remember clearly, on one occasion, I was sitting on a step where I lived,

with, what would otherwise have been a lovely scene in front of me. I was thinking,

"All I have to do is wait and this feeling and situation will improve".

I was doing the opposite of anticipating the negative. That is, while feeling down, I realized that there would be an equally inevitable improvement of my mood and circumstances.

All I had to do was 'hang in there'

and continue to look forward to that anticipated improvement as best I could.

It's not easy but sometimes we can restructure our thinking to anticipate and expect the inevitable positives and improvements, rather than focussing on the equally inevitable 'downs'.

In this way, we are more often looking upward, with positive expectation, than downward with fear.

I was amused by a recent experience. Last Thursday, I joined a group of people who gather to sing with the residents in the aged care section of the local health complex. As my friend and I went in,

I stopped to smell and experience the beautiful aroma of what I know to be a fantastic rose at the entrance. I was relating the incident later on, and laughed when I realized the application of the adage,

"stopping to smell the roses".

So there are still some good things in life.

It is now afternoon here. It takes me a while to put together, proof-read, adjust and correct my responses, and thank goodness for spellcheck. (Maybe a bit of OCD in the mix)

As I have said, the process helps me. I hope my responses are appropriate for you and any other readers of this discussion.

I do hope your Sunday is/was very pleasant and the coming week is

stimulating in the best ways possible, as well as positive and rewarding.

With Best Wishes,

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi there @HenryX 

So I had my psychologist appointment today. She's new to me. I think it went really well. She noted how emotional I got, and I told her I am an emotional person but I am also strong.

I went through a lot in my life. It just reiterated to me just how much one family can struggle with. I find it difficult to connect with others because of this. How could anyone understand? Well I hope I can find someone I can connect with which does not end in me being in a compromising situation. 

Some days I just go through the motions in autopilot. Do you ever do that?

Have a nice Friday 🙂

Dani

[HenryX]

Hi Dani

Pleased to hear from you.

More importantly, very glad that you appear to have established a good rapport with the psychologist today.

I think the expression of emotion when we divulge our thoughts and feelings with a good counselor is something we often try to avoid because we know, that in that environment, we actually will have to face ourselves square-on. And yet those thoughts and emotions are all there, bubbling away under the surface, whether we deal with them or not. So, when we do address them it is a bit like lancing a boil – not pretty, but it can be such a relief.

The tone of your note assures me, and I hope gives you the feeling, that you seem to have recovered a good deal of your strength, and you are somewhat less fragile.

The difficulty of connecting with others is fairly common when we are dealing with deep and long-experienced issues. We are so busy holding everything in and “keeping ourselves in one piece”, that it is difficult extending ourselves outward to others.

The reality is that most other people are not experiencing the number or degree of the issues related to “complex mental health problems” in their own lives. Consequently, we are justifiably reluctant to impose on others, the gravity of our thoughts and emotions. It is really a gift that we have, intuitively,  to know that it is often not right to impose them on others unless they are;-

- qualified to deal with them;-

- very true, special, and trusted friends on whom we can rely for capacity, honesty, integrity, and confidentiality;-

- or in forums such as this one.

Hopefully, we can help each other “lance the boils” in a measured and controlled environment. By doing this we don't feel like a pressure cooker about to blow its safety bung. Then we can feel more confident in extending ourselves outside the digital environment, here on the forum, to meet people face to face with much more confidence and self-assuredness than we might otherwise have.

Through this process, we also don't feel as though new people in our lives have to be able to cope with us “dumping on them”; because of the extra confidence we have, and the other coping strategies that we have learned, and are able to exercise and practice. We can learn that we don't need someone else to prop us up and we can be more of our authentic selves in future friendships and relationships.

We can also feel less vulnerable and better able to cope with compromising situations if and when they inevitably do arise.

In answer to your question, yes I do often feel like I am just doing what needs to be done (and sometimes not even that), without interest or reward that normally comes from completing tasks. I do believe that many of us feel that “autopilot syndrome” when we cope by shutting off external stimuli and simply do what we have to do. Hopefully, as we become less overwhelmed we can experience more of the joy in life, even the mundane day-to-day tasks.

It is through this forum that I am becoming, I hope, more self-aware and able to deal with the issues that I face.

I hope that I am not extending my conversations too much. However, I do enjoy “talking” with you and other people here on the forum. I just hope that what I am saying is relevant for you and others too

I hope you have a great day and weekend Dani,

With Best Wishes

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

How was your Saturday? 

I met up with some friends on Friday night, it was really nice. I thought that they were not there for me, but in fact they were i just had to reach out to them. Which is exactly what my new psychologist suggested. And I also realised that friends are not counsellors, which i had mistaken them for in the past. I had a really good time and enjoyed their company.

I had a fight with my partner. He is in a cricket team and they play every Saturday. I told him that maybe I should find a hobby on the weekend and disappear for the day like he does. He didnt take that too well. I did say it in a harsh tone. I just feel so isolated sometimes and in a rut when I am stuck at home with the kids. They dont enjoy what I like to do and I dont enjoy what they like to do. So where does that leave us. 

I realised, with my psychologist's help, that I felt 'is this it'? Growing up, I could see that my mum had a pretty sad life. She was not happy with any part of her life. She looked after us, worked, cooked and did all the housework too. So when I started seeing similarities in my own life, I felt it was so mundane and I felt trapped in an everyday life that I did not like.

That's why I tried to escape. 

Anyways, You are correct. I am not feeling fragile as much anymore.

I think talking on here has helped.

Thank you for chatting with me.

Dani

[HenryX]

Hello Dani

Yesterday (Sat) was long. Living in W.A. We had the State election, so my day began at 8.00 am and I arrived home about 10.15 pm. I was handing out cards during the day and scrutineer when the polling place was closed and votes were being counted, sealed, and prepared for return to the State Electoral Office.

I enjoy the social interaction of activities like that and the sense of community service. Consequently, it was both an enjoyable and tiring day. Today (Sun) quiet and peaceful

So pleased that your Friday night meeting with friends was pleasant and successful (in the social sense) and that you enjoyed their company. If you enjoyed their company, I feel sure that they also enjoyed your company and companionship. No doubt, all the more pleasant because of your concern about whether they could still be counted as friends.

Your comment about friends not being counselors is, I think, spot on. My thought from your comment is that friends are there with us, not necessarily for us.

If friendship is to be successful, we and our friends are companions who occasionally go a little outside that companionship to provide support. However, they, and we as companions, I think, should not rely constantly or often on each other as counselors. Friends easily get “burned out” if they feel that they are being leaned on all the time. Correspondingly, we and they, are not getting much joy out of any relationship if the main connection is our unhappiness, sadness, and distress.

Uh-oh, we hit a bump on Saturday. I remember my own childhood and feel sad that, like your mother, mine seemed to have a very mundane and unrewarding existence. To our mothers, in their time, this may or may not have been true. Sometimes, I think we “beat ourselves up” for maybe, although unknowingly and unintentionally, having contributed to, what we now think of as, a very bland and difficult existence for them.

Maybe we shouldn't fight so hard to get away from a past that emulates that of either our mothers or our fathers. There is certainly a lot that we, through the social, community, and even legal developments, have changed during the years since our childhood. We can never condone, justify or rationalize away, any of the very real abuses that we know have occurred in the past and still do. However I do believe that we should be cautious about running away or fighting off, in the present, a lifestyle that existed, one, two, or more generations ago. If we are to live in the present, we need to negotiate our positions within a framework and with methods and techniques that exist in the present.

If one person in our adult partnership is accustomed to and continues to enjoy a certain activity with friends, whether it be a craft afternoon, a game of cricket, croquet, (alright I can see you smiling), scuba diving, a cooking afternoon, canoeing ........ then there is, hopefully, room for negotiation in terms of what the other partner in the relationship might have as time for activities in which they can participate and enjoy. Any discussion then takes on the tone of a meaningful and worthwhile exchange. Worthwhile, because it benefits the family, of two or more, if each is having some personal time and activity that brings something, sometimes nebulous, and hard to define though it may be, back with them when they return to the family group.

If we try to keep fighting off, what we think would otherwise be our lot when thinking of our parents' experience, then we will continue fighting, and probably unsuccessfully. We might also recognize that our parents did not always use, what now may be considered, appropriate methods to fulfill and achieve their own wishes and needs. We need to be cautious of bringing those older methods, that we may remember from our childhood days, into our present-day lives.

I also think that it is worth remembering that our parents' lot was not always one-sided. Women often did, as they often do now, have close and supportive associations and friendships, there was often meaning and purpose in their lives; men's lives, particularly in many work environments, were not always easy either. As I have said, I have no desire to justify any wrongs done, that we see from our perspective now. What I am keen to do is use the skills, knowledge, and understanding that we have in the present day to discuss and resolve present-day issues.

We also recognize today that it is important for the child or children in relationships to have one-on-one time with all adult partners. That is how our social structure has developed for its present purposes. Which is another example of the difference between then and now. I personally believe it is important for all children to have association with and develop skills in relating to others within a range of like and cross-gender activities. In the family, such planned activities can recognize the other partners' interests, particularly with regard to children, and afford that other partner time for those opportunities.

Sometimes, on the basis of past experience, men can feel that they are automatically excluded from time with the children. Those conditioned reactions are often difficult to resolve for the present.

On this basis, in the present, the benefits do not only accrue to the partner having “away” activity time but also, on their return, accrue to the other partner and children. However, neither partner should simply be viewed as the “babysitter”, unless in response to exceptional or emergency circumstances.

So, there are lots of factors that can be taken into account when negotiating time, activities, roles, within and outside the home. I'm sure that those items do not exhaust the possibilities.

Your comment “He didn't take that too well. I did say it in a harsh tone.” brings to mind the paraphrased expression, “you might have won the battle, but did you win the war”. Then that raises the question, “Does there need to be a war at all”. If negotiating skills are used successfully, we all win.

Negotiation does not mean imposition on the other or demands for something, but rather assertively stated wishes and needs and graciously given and received recognition of each person, in the relationship, and their wishes and needs. I even think that this principle can apply to children at a level and in a manner appropriate for their age. A question arises for me, “I wonder if your partner knows that you feel isolated, or if he does know, the manner that the sentiment has been conveyed to him?”

Can you and the children watch his cricket game and build associations and possible friendships within that environment. Those connections can be with others who may be there to support their partner, but may or may not have any particular interest in the game itself. What are the things you like to do? Can you be enjoying what you like to do “in parallel” with their activities? That is, you might be enjoying different activities but in the same physical space as each other. In this way, you may experience each other's enjoyment while not being directly involved in the other's activity. We don't necessarily have to think of different activities as being mutually exclusive. Thinking “outside the box” helps with exploring ideas.

The answer to “is this it?” might be “What can you change that is happening in the present, and how can you begin the process of change?”

What is happening in the present is not necessarily a product of the past, but may be what you recall, or your perception of what happened in the past for your parents, but still remains in your mind in the present.

I say “process of change” because the changes you make will be dependent on the future ”present” that you may want and will exist at any given future “present” time. The means and ways you will accomplish that future “present” will be with your own continuously evolving skills, knowledge, and understanding.

The similarities in your present life, to that which your mother experienced, could very likely be a product of your projection of yourself, backward, to a place that you recall from your childhood. Where else does fear of such a life, in your “present” life come from? So some of the current issues may not be from what is outside of you now, but from what memories are held within you.

Your comment “That's why I tried to escape.” begs the question “Do you actually know from what it is that you are trying to escape” and “What is the place to which you are escaping?”

The negotiation strategy means you have:

1. a present position, that will, as in all our lives, be constantly changing

2. a projected target or goal. Some future positions being more stable and others more fluid, but none standing still.

3. all the factors that you will have to take into account in moving from present position to future goal or target.

4. a method by which to accomplish the movement from present to future position(s). This will be, in part, where your negotiating skills fit in.

Those four items constitute your plan. It might seem very structured at first, but could, if you feel it is appropriate and you want it to, become a normal part of your life after a while.

The usual caveats apply – practice first on targets that are reasonably assured of success and fairly quickly achievable. Practice builds success models as well as confidence.

You have mentioned that the children and your partner don't have similar interests to you. Would you be happy to say what your interests are? You said your partner plays cricket, however, did not mention what you like doing or the children.

What I have written, Dani, comes from my own life experience, in family, work, and social activities, so it is personal. I have no formal qualifications in psychology.

I hope my responses reflect the fact that I do enjoy their preparation and return to you, and am happy to continue chatting as long as you would like to do so.

Please remember, as I have said before, that my responses also help me.

Thank you for offering your experiences, pleasant and otherwise, your concerns, interactions with your partner, family, and reflections on the assistance given by your psychologist, on all of which, I have been able to base my observations.

And thank you especially for the last three lines of the message to which I am responding.

With Best Wishes

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hello @HenryX 

I am glad you had a satisfying Saturday. Sundays are great for relaxing, until you get into the later hours when I feel anxious about it being Monday very soon!

You are so right about friendships. I had a friend in high school who I leaned on too much. She turned around and told me. It hurt. But I have realised that there would have been no kind way of saying it. I have gotten over that now, and have spread my problems over various friends in the present time. I feel that to an extent, that would be okay. I think it is important to let your friends in, but not go as far as relying on them too much. 

I have been reading other people's stories on here. Quite interesting. There is a thread going on about the difficulty of finding/having friends as an adult. I agree. It is extremely hard, although not impossible.

I have a good set of close friends but then sometimes they are not always available. I have times when I can call them. For instance when I am driving to or from work, I call one of my friends who would also be driving at the same time. Some friends I know the days they have off. So it is a delicate dancing act, where you have to time your moves.

I also read someone's post about ending up with a partner like your own parent. I must say, my partner is like no one I have ever met in my own family, close or extended. Actually as i say that I realise that he reminds me a lot of my uncle (who married my aunt - so not blood related). I had a crush on this uncle and so it was not surprising I fell for my partner.

I like to watch my favourite tv show, or any good movie. I used to read a lot. But having three kids makes that an almost impossible task. I was so immersed in watching my show this afternoon that I forgot how to be friendly to the other parents at dance class. They were mainly dads there, so I hope I can be forgiven for walking past them without a hello. I felt terrible afterwards and wanted desperately to rewind so I could play it out again. But alas, these things I just have to mull over until I forget about it and forgive myself. 

Anyways, I hope you have a good week.

Take Care.

Dani

[HenryX]

@Dani1981 

Hello Dani

That Sunday afternoon feeling that the next week is coming in too quickly brings in a bit of anxiety. Or a meeting for which to be prepared causes “pressure in the head”.

I like the way that you have summarised the friendship/counselor situation.

Yes, I agree that friends are for companionship. Our association with other people gives us stability in our lives, but it's not too good to put a lot of pressure on the linkages.

Oftentimes, our closest and strongest friends know, almost intuitively, when we need support and nurturing and that really just happens naturally. Likewise, in reverse, we can offer that sort of support for those closer friends also. However, for people not so close, our intervention may even be seen as intrusive, and I believe we need to be sensitive to the difference.

Friendships for adults, I think are interesting. Often times when I am trying to work out something new on my phone or computer, I think of the way school-age people seem to transfer knowledge to each other almost as if by osmosis. But they also act together in groups where such information is transferred easily. I think that we as adults just operate more independently and therefore have to actively seek information that we may want.

As adults, we seem to have to form groups such as committees and councils for particular functions. Even in structured learning, adults seem to operate more autonomously than younger people. This actually seems to create a barrier to “group learning”. However, the benefit is that we as adults approach questions, tasks, and topics from as many different directions as there are people in the group, which means that many more possible contributions to consider for a potential solution.

I think that we, therefore, have to work harder at creating or identifying linkages and common ground with other people on which to base potential friendships.

Living in a city, when out shopping, if you meet someone who is a fairly close contact or friend, it is often reason to stop for at least a brief chat. I live in a relatively small community where most people are known at some level of acquaintance. Consequently, there is a sort of hierarchy in the levels of greeting for nearly every person in the street. And a “Hi, how are you going” is almost considered a formal greeting

Another lady whom I know seems to know more people than I do and has far closer acquaintances and friends and is involved in a wider range of activities than I am. The dynamics are interesting. I believe there are significant cultural aspects to these levels of association as well.

Yes, there are a few different discussions on different topics on the forum. Your mentioning the fact that you have an uncle (by marriage) whose character may have influenced your choice of partner reminds me of meeting, some time ago, with a second cousin of whom I was quite fond in our teenage years. She told me that she was in love with me at that time. Both of us may well have been better off if we had traveled that path.

I mentioned on another topic that I have enjoyed reading works by Edgar Allan Poe and Isaac Asimov. Poe wrote some fairly ghoulish stories and Asimov was more science fiction, but both writers, in their respective settings, delved into the psyche of people and how they act, motivations, etc.

The TV shows that I enjoy are NCIS (original – not the bang-bang shoot 'em up ones) and a few of the British crime shows. I tend to like intrigue and a good storyline.

It's funny how we sometimes would like to wind the clock back and replay a portion of the day – to do it better. But those little slips can usually be resolved at the next opportunity. And I think that you are right about allowing yourself forgiveness.

Well, definitely time for me to get some shut-eye. I have found the evening's writing relaxing because I've just been in “chatting” mode.

I hope that the end of the week goes very well for you Dani

With Best Wishes

HenryX

[Dani1981]

Hi @HenryX 

Hope you had a good weekend. I had a pretty busy one: I saw the same dance class dads, and spoke to them this time around. I can get over it now.

I really enjoyed reading your post. You opened up a little about what was going on, which is nice when it is not only one sided.

I think it's really nice when you find out an old crush had a crush on you at the same time. It definitely gives you a gooey feeling! I wonder how things would have panned out for you...

Thank you for sharing your interests, it did put a smile on my face 🙂

Hope you have a good week.

I am exhausted...

Dani

[HenryX]

@Dani1981 

Hi Dani

Thanks for your note

It's nearly 5 weeks since we first corresponded and you seem very much more at ease which is really nice to “hear”.

So pleased to know that you have resolved the DCD (dance class dads) issue.

There are a few other posts where I have described a bit more about myself and my circumstances. Believe it or not, I am still trying to make myself familiar with the print maze on this forum & site. But gradually getting the hang of it.

Yes, that eternal question “What if.....” however we can only live our lives in the spaces we have allotted to us. We can make choices but there are so many variables.

Now I'm thinking too philosophically again, gotta get away from that.

While I know that we do go up and down, it is really nice to hear that you are sounding so much more self-assured.

Hope you will be happy to exchange a note from time to time

With Best Wishes

HenryX

@HenryX