Lived Experience Forum

[Rick]

Beautifully put, Cherry!

[kristin]

Hey @CherryBomb 

I think one of the most critical things about negative talk of any kind, but perhaps particularly self-talk (because it is usually silent, so harder to notice & challenge), is reframing the negative you don't want/like into the positive which you want. That is (work out and) describe what you do want. This is very hard work, but quite worthwhile I find. It helps a lot with assertiveness.

An example of aloud to my kids would be to state positively "please stay out of the kitchen because I'm stressed at the moment" rather than "stop driving me crazy!". Or "next time keep hold of my hand" rather than "don't run across the road". (Have you ever noticed that kids seem not to hear the word "don't" at the beginning, they do exactly what they were just told not to do? It's because of what the focus is on, that's why it's particularly effective to state it for them in the positive.)

With self-talk it is much harder (and I'm not as practiced at it) but the idea is to find what you are beating yourself up for and try to rephrase it. Like instead of saying "there I go again - I can't remember what I needed to buy" trying to say "I'm tired and stressed, it's understandable I forgot. It's not like me to forget, next time I'll bring a list."  It seems to involve rewriting a lot of cracked records, but I think it helps me challenge the self-hatred monologues a bit too.

I hope this makes sense.

Kind regards,

Krisitn

I hope that makes sense.

[CherryBomb]

Makes a lot of sense to me @kristin

I think our self-talk can represent how we view the world and our actions very subtlely but on are very powerful level. To your point, Kristin, saying things like  "stop driving me crazy!"  can feed into negativity, frustration and sometimes hurt (towards others and ourselves). In comparison, saying something like, "please stay out of the kitchen because I'm stressed at the moment", which is empathetic and compassionate towards yourself and other people.

I'm practicing being more mindful of saying things like 'should have' 'could have' and 'what if' - statements that are not focused here in the present, but in the past or in the future - things that I can't control, unlike the present. So I try to rephrase things into 'doing' statements. Does that make sense? For instance, I forgot to do something at work a few months ago. This made me spiral into feeling anxious, I said things like 'I should have remembered' but then I  changed what I was saying to 'I'm setting automatic reminders in my diary'. It felt a lot more empowering for me as it allowed me to focus on the now, and change my behaviour.

[Rick]

@CherryBomb 

Hi Cherry. Yup total agreement there. I figured some time ago that I will not be able to change the core programming. At first I was bummed. Gradually I figured thaat would I could control was the way I expressed it.

There came with that a list of No No's

No fairness/ unfairness. 

No active hate

No setting up to fail.

No quitting.

No sabotage

along with afew others.

I knew it could nt be just No nos

So the positive thought was.

Just try for simple humility. No building up No tearing down. Assumptions best left to others.

And the hardest one

Look outside yourself.

I think in this way there is more control over the ego. The ego is a monster when not in balance.

Build too high. Your in trouble. Cut yourself off at the knees , your in trouble.

This is my version of mindfulness.

If I can  paraphrase Jesus of Nazerath. He kinda said- Try to be good. Understand this-you will fail. But try anyway.

And my own personal saying. I made this'un up when I was in my late 20's/

Getting knocked down is just practise for getting u p again. What you gonna do son, LIE THERE?

It's only in the writing of this I'm remebering the details.

These are my tools.

My wand is busted but the tools moostly work. Mostly.

Hope endures

Rick

[kristin]

Hey @CherryBomb 

I aggree that should have/could have takes a huge toll. I think your approach is a good one. One of the things I try to encourage my kids to do is to work out what they DO want and state it politely, rather than complain when somehting is not as they want it (probably repeating myself there - if so sorry - bit of a mantra). 

Another thing I try to do is separate need and want, and do away with must. \

So:

I need to eat, sleep, breathe, be clothed & housed. I want a newer car (which doesn't nearly use more oil than petrol) and a tidier house. If my old car dies then I will need a newer car (virtually no PT out here, & my 6yo's school is about 10kms away).

I need to get up in the morning to help my kids get organised for school. I want them to eat healthy food and I want to save money where I can so I make their lunches.

However culturally we tend to use must instead of need. This makes it into forcing ourselves, which actually adds in a whole lot of negative emotional stuff pushing back. (Whtat do you do if someone pushes you? You tend to push back, the same goes for when we push ourselves in this way) So I'd rather take a more encouraging proactive approach of differentiating between wants and needs.

It can work well with kids too. "No you don't need a new (insert whatever the latest tech gadget wish is), you want it. You do need to wet though."

Cheers, Kristin

[kristin]

Dear @Rick 

I find it amazing reading what you write, and what you've survived.

It saddens me to read this

"Getting knocked down is just practise for getting u p again. What you gonna do son, LIE THERE?"

It speaks so clearly of the abuse you have suffered and (naturally) internalised. Would you try this one instead please? "Sorry you got knocked down again, it hurts like hell. Can I give you a hand up?" Because this is compassionate Rick speaking to others, and IMHO the best way to grow compassion for others is to also grow it for ourselves. BTW we are here to give you a hand up when you need it, insomuch as that is possible on the forum, just as you are for us.

Kindest regards,

Kristin

[Rick]

@kristin 

Hi Kristin,

hoping you are travelling alright.

Just so's you know. I like the phrase about getting up.

To me it's very kind. It's what God might say to me.

The only person to ever call me Son, was my recently deceased father  in  law. Luigi. (Biker name)

He was more of a father to me than the man who called himself that.

When I had my relapse in my early 30's this tuff hardcore bastard called me at the hospital and told me

" I love yer , my son. You come on up home and Luigi will look after yer"

Now this guys lived on the land out past Dalby. He was a brilliant self educated man who could turn his hand to anything. 

What was I? Just a friggin muso. and a nut job, no use to anyone. I did'nt even ride anymore cos I was too scared. 

But that man did'nt give a rats about that. Somehow he saw some kind of worth in me that I still don't see.He did'nt understand psych stuff , but no judgment did I ever feel from that man.

I lost him when my wife divorced me. 

Soon after he got cancer.

He died. He made me a pall bearer. The only non club memeber to be so. I was honoured. humbled.

I miss him terribly. I miss  him...........

So it's Luigi saying 

What you gonna do son, LIE THERE?"

And that's a good thing.

Luig taught me that

Hope endures

Rick.

[kristin]

Hey @Rick 

Thanks so much for explaining. He sounds like an amazing man. Sorry - I guess I'm putting my own "stuff" on it. Duly humbled, I will retire to my box (not really, just extremely stressed out, and need lots of quiet). Not likely this time of year, but I work on it.

Kind regards, 

Kristin

[Rick]

@kristin 

Hi kristin.

you said the exact right thing. You could not have known my reasons for the lanuage I use.

Please accept for apologies. I did not intend to step on.

truly I appreciated your words.

It's because of that appreciation I wanted to share the story of Luigi.

I don't talk much about myself in any real depth, but I can with you. 

If that means to you  what it means to me I hope you won't feel humbled. Please do go into a box. I like our conversation. You're the only here I actually converse with.

I may be hard on myself but it's a lot better than it used to be. I don't believe I derve to not exist anymore. 

Please be assure that I would'nt and have'nt ever take the same tone with others as I do with myself. I would hope  I was kinder and constructive.  I hope I always have been.

And believe me when I say I'm far kinder to me then anyone I knew was when I was growing up.

This time of year is a trigger for so many of us. I am triggered by it. I am upset by it.

I don't share that because I'm still ok and being alone in the world I must rely on me either way.

Friends?

asked in hope

Rick

[kristin]

Hey @Rick 

Quick reply as am off to therapy & shopping before bolting home again before it gets too busy. 

Friends of course, no offence intended or taken I assure you (back in my box was a joke). I will not take offence easily, I promise you. Calling a spade a spade is something I really value - even when it hurts. So be at ease on that count.

I'm honoured that you feel you can talk with me, I think conversations are something we all need.

A couple of things from other posts which I need to put in here for the sake of being swift:

- re a forum for survivors of non-sexual child abuse: no I don't know of any but I will keep an eye out plus I have started to put the word out on twitter (which is how I found out about pandy's) where I'm in contact with a lot of other survivors around the world. Have you looked at pandys? I haven't really had the space to explore it much but they may have a section, you could also contact them and ask if they know of the kind of forum you are looking for.

- I'm currently reading a book called The Body Remembers by Babette Rotschild which has been incredibly helpful at pin-pointing a lot of my own physical symptoms and understanding the reasons for their persistence. I thought it might be helpful to you, @kenny66 & @Alessandra1992 . When I have time I will post this on that thread too.

In the hope of enduring friendship...

Kindest regards,

Kristin